tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post32544485706285370..comments2023-06-28T16:58:41.189+02:00Comments on Web Reflection: about that postAndrea Giammarchihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16277820774810688474noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-27388130796909036402011-10-16T18:02:02.026+02:002011-10-16T18:02:02.026+02:00Have you ever tried to _debug_ GWT?:) It's fun...Have you ever tried to _debug_ GWT?:) It's fun :) (No.)Aadaamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05843560041038857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-56967190694904262762011-10-16T12:45:00.143+02:002011-10-16T12:45:00.143+02:00they had already GWT !!!they had already GWT !!!Andrea Giammarchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16277820774810688474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-52524302012416633352011-10-16T12:15:01.144+02:002011-10-16T12:15:01.144+02:00Unfortunately, the 70s brought so much type errors...Unfortunately, the 70s brought so much type errors at runtime that abstract type systems were thought to be neccessary.<br /><br />With the advent of OOP I don't really believe in the necessity of typesystems, however, this myth could not be killed off. <br /><br />Therefore, people need a typed version of javascript, something which ES4 was to provide for them, yet it was vetoed by Crockford basically.<br /><br />I'm not talking about "JS does have types": I know it does; I talk about enforced parameter handling, which can be checked at compile time.<br /><br />Of course, nothing stops anyone from introducing a coffeescript-like, yet typesafe language; with that, a lot of our blaming would be solved I guess.<br /><br />As for "staying away from web"... this cannot be done unfortunately. A huge bunch of people are trained to Java at uni, and most of them end up being a java code monkey at an enterprise. Since 95+% of enterprise applications have a web frontend, they cannot avoid javascript, but man, how they wish to do so.. together with all the UI jobs...Aadaamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05843560041038857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-41671978749035297342011-10-15T15:51:53.759+02:002011-10-15T15:51:53.759+02:00I don´t see the point in having another language a...I don´t see the point in having another language and the need for an extra VM to interpret it. Sounds like Flash/Silverlight and not really open to me. In the end we have browser with Dart plugins... <br /><br />The performance talk sounds to me like the "old" C/C++ vs. Java discussion. Many results showed that Java can be almost as fast as C/C++ with some exceptions. With things like Emscripten where the compiled JS was 3 to 8 times slower than native C++ code I am sure we will reach the point where JS is nearly as fast as native C code.<br /><br />I liked your post in the first place. I don´t get point of Dart and I am rather looking forward to the next versions of ECMAScript.Alex Lawrencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-69238067400733064862011-10-13T09:40:35.950+02:002011-10-13T09:40:35.950+02:00Hey Andrea, stop trying to convince those Java-bac...Hey Andrea, stop trying to convince those Java-background programmers. It's superior to them. They can't accept the existence of Javascript and they are even more pissed off by the last achievements. Even I think that Dart is like a regret from the V8 Engine.<br /><br />As PPK <a href="http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2011/10/dart_or_why_jav.html" rel="nofollow">said</a>, "If you want to work with the web, learn JavaScript. If you don’t want to learn JavaScript, stay the hell away from the web". Such easy as that.Àlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13729718061629925601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-44421063827470079892011-10-13T09:28:56.339+02:002011-10-13T09:28:56.339+02:00WebCL has this aim, brings ultra fast native perfo...WebCL has this aim, brings ultra fast native performances as separate process WebWorker style.<br /><br />typed Arrays and future StructType, ArrayType, and ParallelsArray have the same aim.<br /><br />There are tons of rooms for improvements and I don't see how starting from the scratch with something not that new and incompatible with current web can be a faster process.Andrea Giammarchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16277820774810688474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-87968327734979878982011-10-13T08:01:25.372+02:002011-10-13T08:01:25.372+02:00It's not a matter of giving up, but a matter o...It's not a matter of giving up, but a matter of how fast can you get the code without actually breaking the guarantees given by the language (Improving performance is seldom a linear process). There will always be a difference between native and JavaScript code.<br />And while most people won't need that kind of performance, some do and can't achieve it with JavaScript.Andreas Bergmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12101686426494263632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-80169760016969075712011-10-13T07:56:38.678+02:002011-10-13T07:56:38.678+02:00They have improved performances 1000 times challen...They have improved performances 1000 times challenging JIT.<br />Mozilla is improving performances even more challenging a tracer combined with a JIT.<br /><br />Are you saying they are giving up ?Andrea Giammarchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16277820774810688474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34454975.post-71345216571995681562011-10-13T07:47:26.445+02:002011-10-13T07:47:26.445+02:00I think the last one is easy. Google is one of the...I think the last one is easy. Google is one of the companies with products taking JavaScript to it's boundaries (performance wise) and they realize that it just isn't fast enough. And by the design of the language, it is very hard to increase performance.Andreas Bergmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12101686426494263632noreply@blogger.com